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From Polytheism To Monotheism : A Quest For Power?

Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:19 PM EDT
politics, islam, christianity, power, judaism, monotheism, pwer
By Kathy Gill
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One good thing about the Koran burning/mosque hating meme that is so dominating conversation is that it is generating additional conversation about organized religion, in general.

I recently started thinking about the transition from polytheism to monotheism. Actually, I was thinking about the society and culture of 60-100 CE and consciously realized, for the first time, the uphill battle facing early Christians (a sub-group of a minority: Jews) as they sought converts. No wonder "evangelizing" was an integral part of the writings of the apostles:

Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ. Acts 5:42

Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism. However, when Jerusalem was conquered by the Romans in 70 CE, most people did not worship a single god. Rather, society was polytheistic: 

Only very late in "homo religiosus" did monotheism -- "one-god-ism" -- first emerge ...

At the heart of polytheism is an open-minded and easygoing approach to religious belief and practice, a willingness to entertain the idea that there are many gods and many ways to worship them. At the heart of monotheism, by contrast, is the sure conviction that only a single god exists, a tendency to regard one's own rituals and practices as the only proper way to worship the one true god. The conflict between these fundamental values ... is a war that has been fought with heart-shaking cruelty over the last thirty centuries, and it is a war that is still being fought today.

From God Against the Gods: The History of the War Between Monotheism and Polytheism by Jonathan Kirsch

You may have been taught that the case for "one true god" was first made by the Jews. I certainly was. But we are wrong. 

According to Kirsch, that distinction belongs to an ancient Egyptian pharaoh, Akhenaton, who tried to fashion a one-true-god in the 14th century BCE. At the time, Egypt was the reigning world power. Akhenaton also fought an uphill battle; his efforts fell apart with his death.

Flash forward a few centuries. By the 7th century BCE, King Josiah "fully purged Israel of its pagan taint" (p 5) not because he was a prophet but because he was a king with the power to make it so. However, the effort died with his death, as it also had in Egypt. In the 1st century BCE, Persia was the land of Zoroastrianism, which spread to India and China. 

Monotheism would not become the way of the world until after the Roman emperor Constantine, in the 4th century, paved the way. After the First Council of Nicea (325 CE), which "resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine," Constantine the Great "had all alternative versions of the Bible junked in order to consolidate his power." In turn, the 4th century Roman ruler Julian rejected monotheism and revitalized paganism, but his objection was merely a speed bump on the Roman (and Catholic Church) road to monotheism. 

Even at the time of Mohammed, in the 7th century CE, the Arabian Peninsula remained unsettled in terms of religion. Not only was there traditional war, there was a war for hearts and minds because of the religious mix: Christianity, Judaism, mysticism and polytheism.  

And yet the push for a central true god, a world dominated by monotheism, prevailed in the West.

Today, approximately 3 billion people worship a variant of the god who "revealed himself to Abraham in the second millennium BCE" (The Evolution of God, p 101). Monotheism is a relative youngster when compared with polytheism, and many (most?) Christians, Jews or Muslims deny that their brothers and sisters are worshiping the same god. As a result, too many people voluntarily engage in conflict over the "one true god," with too many of the major wars of western civilization having been fought in the name of religion. Sigmund Freud identified this conflict in his book Moses and Monotheism, noting that "religious intolerance, which was foreign to antiquity ... was inevitably born with the belief in one God" (p 21). 

Why might a king prefer one god to many gods?

Wright argues that consolidation of the power spread across many gods was a form of social cement. It was also a means of nullifying opposition power (by removing organized opposition). In addition, this consolidation elevated the position of high priests in both social and political structures. 

As Bernard Lewis, "a go-to guy during the Bush administration," reminds us, the notion of a separate church and state “was not only non-existent but would have been meaningless” during the first millennium. 

Monotheism simplifies things for the ruler (be that priest or king). But it removes choice for the ruled. What makes a rational person voluntarily accept that trade-off? The early history suggests that the common man rejected the change, the imposition of a new order (one god). However, as kings and priests aligned their interests and shared the power that resulted, the social norm -- often imposed at the point of a spear -- became one god. It became the norm and polytheism (or atheism) the social aberration.

However after the Enlightenment -- the age of reason -- we learned that famines, bountiful harvests, infections or luck aren't the result of superstition. What, then, is the relationship between politics and religion in modern society?

If politics is both "a system used to allocate those things which are important to society" and "the authoritative allocation of value," then religion plays an incredibly large role in politics because religion is the basis, the foundation, of most people's value judgments. And the differences between political parties in the United States are reflected in values: this is good, that is bad (distribution of charity - church, state or other means); this is right, that is wrong (abortion, death penalty, who is taxed and how).

When investigating murder or other nefarious deeds, the first question is this: who benefits? So what is the role of monotheism in our modern society? Who benefits?

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Kathy Gill

Also at The Moderate Voice.

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:19 PM EDT
etva

Enjoyed your article. Funny how we allow ourselves to be so easily manipulated by our own beliefs, just because we want to be "right."

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:29 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Thank you!

And what is it that makes someone not only "want to be right" but want everyone else to think the same?

  • 1 vote
#2.1 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:11 AM EDT
Reply
firsty

great examination. monotheism is really nothing more than the politicizing of belief. not cool.

  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:15 AM EDT
CL1

I imagine what you said about the controversy sparking general religious conversation is true, Kathy.

I don't have any great words of widom to share other than your essay was interesting and informative to me...Thank you.

  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:30 AM EDT
ScienceGuy-356641

Politics and the desire to control the local populace most certainly played a major role in the evolution of almost every major religion in the world.

  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:35 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Thanks, CL1.

firsty and ScienceGuy-356641 -- y'all seem to be in sync.

But who is the beneficiary today? Is it the entrenched elite in DC? (Our re-election rate is among the highest in the world.) Is it the proverbial money changers? And why do so many cling to this ancient form of tribalism? What's in it for them?

  • 1 vote
Reply#6 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:53 AM EDT
etva

And why do so many cling to this ancient form of tribalism? What's in it for them?

Comfort and acceptance from neighbors and communities.

As for who benefits today, I think it varies, but in general anyone who is looking for power and control can benefit from manipulation of religious beliefs. I also think that we are so "busy" and tired in today's world, that many people just don't stop to think about things.

  • 1 vote
#6.1 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:46 AM EDT
CL1

I still do think the political element in Islam is of a different nature than any perceived element of such in Christianity. The difference, imo, is that of wealth (maybe) with Christianity, and that of power and control with Islam. Islam and Allah can 'have no others.' Christianity is more tolerant and allows for diversity (and atheism). Sure, they both want a measure of power and control - but one allows freedom of choice, the other doesn't -- or is that just a misperception on my part?

I am not favoring Christianity for personal reasons to be biased. I am coming from a perspective of the probability of one over the other having eventual political dominance (through representation) in our government. If I had a choice, I would want it to be Christianity over the limiting/oppressive Islam.

  • 1 vote
#6.2 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:17 AM EDT
etva

Christianity is more tolerant and allows for diversity (and atheism).

CL1: Though I see your point, I think it depends on how individuals interpret their religion. I also think the freedom of choice comes more from country and culture, rather than religion.

  • 2 votes
#6.3 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:45 AM EDT
etva

Oops -- sorry CL, I commented in 6.3 before I read your second post below:)

I have viewed (up to now) Islam as a theocracy first, and religion second.

  • 1 vote
#6.4 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:48 AM EDT
CL1

" ...freedom of choice comes more from country and culture, rather than religion." ---- As I interpret your statement, "country and culture" implies a political element, no? ..And that is more or less the point I am making. ..as extemist groups..that could eventually see dominance in our political system (or as Soval is saying, already has with Christianity - I am hoping for a better understanding of that).

  • 1 vote
#6.5 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:52 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, etva - good point about being tired. I think our educational system plays into our unwillingness to think.

If I had a choice, I would want it to be Christianity over the limiting/oppressive Islam.

WHICH sect of Christianity? The one that wants to burn the Qua'rn on 9-11? I say this only slightly tongue-in-check. Islam in and of itself is not "oppressive" any more than Judaism or Christianity.

  • 2 votes
#6.6 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
CL1

Kathy, I would like to better understand your pov. Does Islam allow for the belief of other Gods/tenets/dogmas? Does Christianity as a 'general concept' allow/tolerate diversity of other 'Christian sects' or do they terrorize/kill them with extremist groups? (I am talking about in the US)

  • 1 vote
#6.7 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
etva

I think our educational system plays into our unwillingness to think.

I definitely agree, but that's a whole different article topic:)

  • 2 votes
#6.8 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:03 PM EDT
firsty

it also may have to do with the fact that christianity has developed differently. it now exists largely around a capitalist system, where islam is still the center of that culture. so, the powers that be in both cultures leverage the belief systems differently.

but DC uses christianity the same way the taliban uses islam, essentially -- to bias public sentiment toward its own goal, which is power. that the power looks different from one culture to another is mostly cultural, not religious.

  • 3 votes
#6.9 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:21 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

CL1

Kathy, I would like to better understand your pov. Does Islam allow for the belief of other Gods/tenets/dogmas? Does Christianity as a 'general concept' allow/tolerate diversity of other 'Christian sects' or do they terrorize/kill them with extremist groups? (I am talking about in the US)

I am not a scholar of either Christianity or Islam.

Once-upon-a-time, Christianity "as a general concept" did explicitly resort to war and death to the opposition (Crusades, witches, Northern Ireland).

I don't know how much intra-Islam fighting has to do with religion and how much it has to do with property and economic sovereignty. Think about the unemployment rate in much of the Islamic world: all that testosterone with no viable economic channel. No wonder the religious leaders can foment hate and channel that energy.

So I don't think it is fair or useful or intellectually honest to compare Christianity in the U.S. with any opposing religion in any developing country. And from this map, it appears that Islam is the dominant religion in relatively poor and/or developing nations. So perhaps the better inquiry might be to compare parts of South America (Roman Catholic) with parts of Africa (Muslim), recognizing that most of S.A. is still more advanced than most of Islamic Africa.

AFA the middle east is concerned .... the region has been "at war" for hundreds of years, with very short periods of "peace." Note that the U.S. aligned itself with the Taliban when that religious group was trying to throw off the mantle of the Soviet Union .... but now the former ally is an enemy. What changed? I don't think it was the political beliefs of the Taliban.

  • 2 votes
#6.10 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:55 AM EDT
CL1

Hi Kathy, I appreciate your reply. Thank you!

You'll notice in my comment you highlighted, I was looking for your perspectives and interpretations of modern day USA. Oh yes, Christianity has an evil History, as well. Where I spend my focus regarding religion in the US is to specifically pay attention to the Christian and Islamic groups and what advances they have made. Finding the 'truth' is a struggle. So, I take most source information with a grain of salt as propaganda - promotion or degradation - and look for more reports of the same for verification..and even then, there might have been a lot of pay-offs to get the information publicized.

I wasn't focusing on a world view in my discussion here, but as you bring that up, I will mention that I have read that Islam is close to bridging the gap between the two. There are different figures from different sources, but approximately 1.9 vs. 2.2; and estimates that Islam will dominate in the US in as little as five years... we will see.

I find it more enlightening to find personal testimonial over text and articles quite often. But they could have been payed, also. (So many were saying that regarding Black Tea Partyers...hard to know for sure.)

I also agree with your perspectives in the middle-east. The opinion by many is that the same type of game that is played here (regarding the notion of terrorism) is played there by their leaders, telling their people that the USA are terrorists, and is the reason why the people are economically oppressed. ..resulting in hate and dissention. I fear the spread of Islam, not the 'people,' in the regard that the wealthy elite will achieve their goals here (US) with all of their oil dollars to back them up. History has shown groups and individuals attempting to gain world dominance in the past, and they always failed. I think the combination of vast wealth and technology have finally given the elite groups the 'edge' they have always needed to achieve their goals...imo.

In your last statement, "What changed?" ...I tend to think nothing changed, they just want us to think so. ;)

  • 1 vote
#6.11 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:23 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

'morning CL1:

Ah, sorry for misinterpreting your question. Radical or fundamental Christianity in the U.S. scares me: see abortion clinic murder/attacks for example or the preacher in Florida who wants 9-11 to be an international burn the Qur'an day. Others have suggested that a pre-occupation with "end times" more easily allows people to disconnect from "today" and today's problems, whether that is environmental (our oil-based economy, climate change, drinking water) or political or their own insecurities (evidenced by escapism into alcohol, drugs, meaningless consumption, TV, video games, the Net, etc.).

How could Islam "dominate in the US" in as little as five years? There are approximately 5 million Muslims in the U.S. -- that's less than 2% of our population. Our dominant religion (8-in-10) is Christianity. I'm confused as to what you mean.

I fear the spread of Islam, not the 'people,' in the regard that the wealthy elite will achieve their goals here (US) with all of their oil dollars to back them up. History has shown groups and individuals attempting to gain world dominance in the past, and they always failed. I think the combination of vast wealth and technology have finally given the elite groups the 'edge' they have always needed to achieve their goals...imo.

Thanks for this graph, it brings us full circle to the the post. :-)

I agree. I think that what is good for those in power (elected leaders, business leaders, religious leaders) is not necessarily good for "the people." I wish there were a poll trying to figure out what people know about the U.S. role in arming the world .... hmmm.... maybe I'll do one. ;-)

In your last statement, "What changed?" ...I tend to think nothing changed, they just want us to think so. ;)

This, too, ties into the "quest for power" theme. And I agree. :-/

PS: love your quote on your home page ... since it's unattributed, is it your words?

  • 2 votes
#6.12 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:37 PM EDT
CL1

Good afternoon! (almost :)

I agree with your abhorrence for the Christian fanatic's righteousness in the US... Forcing their will also spreads hate and dissension among opposing groups, most likely, also dollar-backed hate groups. ..more of the games being played...imo. ...Personally, I like to think that no matter which religious group dominates in the future, that the citizenry will not tolerate either group's attempts at forcing or preventing freedom of speech or religion (or the right to 'no' religion).

As for Islamic dominance in possibly five years, that came from a You Tube presentation of both world and US estimates and speculation (no, I don't have the poster's link because the moderator quickly deleted it - which I think was a biased move on their part ). I don't know how likely that is to happen, but it was speculation with regards to the trends in reproduction and immigration. It wasn't mentioned if those figures were influenced by potential proselytization. That's the only source I've seen ...so I take it for what it is worth as one source's opinion.

I think your pointing out the Saudi dollars that are paid to the US in arming the world (and defense contracts in general) is a good one. What more do the people of the US need - to see what is going on? Yes, power, and a whole lot more...maybe. ;-)

Oh, I "quoted" Oscar Wilde ..sorry to not give him credit. lol.

  • 1 vote
#6.13 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT
Reply
Soval-1219303

It's not just about believing in a single god, it's about exclusive access to the divine. Whether the subject is morality, the worldly distribution of power and wealth, salvation and the afterlife, etc. the three Abrahimic faiths, and the various sects within, have each taken to seeing themselves as possessing a special knowledge and a special relationship with their god --a relationship and knowledge that others don't posses and sets them apart and above from those lacking in those things.

This claim to exclusive access leads to a claim of exclusive privileges and benefits, and accordingly a deep insecurity that all of those things could be taken away at any moment. Hence, there are deep divides, even within the separate faiths, that have each group wanting to maintain its dominance and have its exclusivity forever enshrined and guaranteed over all others.

Over the last decade, at the same time we saw a spike of Islamophobia, we were also seeing a growing presence of Christian fundamentalism in politics. The same side that loudly condemned religious extremism and theocracy abroad, to the point of starting wars because of it, openly embraced Conservative Christian ideologies, policies, and leaders at home. The clash of civilizations that the war on terror was depicted as was driven in large part by a monotheistic desire to maintain and reassert their exclusive association with all that is right and holy in the world. These ideas are so deeply entrench in the ideas and identity of America, that it's not just god we Americans claimed exclusivity to, but to freedom and justice and equality and decency and humanity.

Look on NewsVine on any given day and you will see those who need to loudly and angrily assert the inferiority of Islam, or any of a number of of their other identified enemies, in order to keep that sense of their own exclusivity alive.

  • 2 votes
Reply#7 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:32 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Excellent and thoughtful - thank you!

I had not consciously linked fundamentalist christianity with 9-11, but you are probably correct. I wonder if attendance is "up" compared to pre-2000?

  • 2 votes
#7.1 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:07 AM EDT
etva

Great comments Soval. So in other words, pride and fear are integral to our situation today -- not something most Americans would like to admit, IMO.

  • 2 votes
#7.2 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:51 AM EDT
CL1

Soval, ---- I agree, that was well stated. Before I ask, please understand that my question has no element of antagonism - something that many of us perceive when we take a stand of opposition (as i appear to do above).

Could you give me/us an example of how Christianity in our government system (other than a military spreading Bibles) is shown as .."Christian fundamentalism in politics" ?

I am truly interested because I have viewed (up to now) Islam as a theocracy first, and religion second. I only see Christianity as a religion. Is my perception wrong in your mind, or opinion?

  • 1 vote
#7.3 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:45 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, CL1 -- what do you mean by theocracy?

I ask because the nation that comes to my mind when thinking of a "religious" nation (linkage of government/religion) is Israel. But there is a larger percentage of Americans who claim to be Christian than Israelis that claim to be Jewish. Read that sentence again ...

  • 1 vote
#7.4 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:57 AM EDT
CL1

The Quran is rule of law and government incorporated into the religious dogma (as I interpret) -- Is the Bible viewed as a government rule Book? That is my point. I hope I addressed your question (lol).

  • 1 vote
#7.5 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:07 PM EDT
JJP

Is the Bible viewed as a government rule Book?

I think in some cases, by some people, it is. There are many laws on the books at local and state levels that draw on the tenets in the Bible. An example that comes immediately to mind would be the Blue Laws.

  • 1 vote
#7.6 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:28 PM EDT
CL1

JJP ---Excellent point!! ..one I had not thought of. Thank you.

How lenient is the Quran in comparison? That is still my point ..are both dogmas "equally" as tolerant of forgoing laws to individual or group discretion??

Additionally, regarding the "Blue Laws" ...it was noted that most have been repealed or declared unconstitutional or simply unenforced. Also, noted was that some of the states that retain any of those laws are a matter of 'tradition or convenience' (rather than forced ruling).

  • 2 votes
#7.7 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:56 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, CL1

Additionally, regarding the "Blue Laws" ...it was noted that most have been repealed or declared unconstitutional or simply unenforced.

Hmmm... That doesn't jibe with my experience in the South. <pause> Here are data from 2006 -- 12 states still had some form of blue law relating to alcohol sales.

As to the linkag of the Qur'an with law -- here is a nice overview of Islam from About.com.

The Five Pillars of Islam are the cornerstones of Islam. These are obligations which are required of every Muslim and thus should also be the starting point of any serious, substantive criticism of Islam, Muslims, and Muslim beliefs. They are: shahadah (statement of faith), salat (prayers), zakat (alms), sawm (fasting), and hajj (pilgrimage).

The first three are also substantive obligations of Christianity.

This wikipedia article on theocracy suggest that there are five Islamic states (including our "ally" Saudi Arabia), one Catholic one (The Vatican), one Jewish one (Israel), and a bunch that recognize some form of Christianity as their state religion. For example, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Iceland recognize the Lutheran Church as their official religion. (I didn't know this.) And the states listed as "Islamic" are not on the tongues of most folks, with the exception of Saudi Arabia.

The Five Pillars of Islam are the cornerstones of Islam. These are obligations which are required of every Muslim and thus should also be the starting point of any serious, substantive criticism of Islam, Muslims, and Muslim beliefs. They are: shahadah (statement of faith), salat (prayers), zakat (alms), sawm (fasting), and hajj (pilgrimage).

  • 2 votes
#7.8 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:28 PM EDT
CL1

Hi Kathy, thanks for the links.

Most of my questions were rhetorical to not only generate discussion, but to point out (usually) where I find discrepancy, hypocrisy or error (imo and interpretation).

As a side note, I often refer to Wiki, but do take it with a grain of salt. It is highly 'edited' and bias. Another Viner that is well-versed in Islam stated to me that I shouldn't be intimidated by it and should recognize 'interpretation.' .. I have come to see that as well.

I have not 'studied' the Quran, and like the Bible, there is much room for interpretation.

Personally, I haven't taken a *political* interpretation from the Bible (as a direct Law, other than fair and decent morality)-- in the same way the Quaran is interpreted -(death to the infidel)- and the whole 'cleric' structure of the middle-east theocracies. There is a difference there.

Until the day comes that our Parliamentary structure is comprised of middle-east 'clerics' (yes, I know some Christian pastors are in Congress), and making laws that have been mandated by "Allah" for all -- and remove all other Gods from 'choice' ---then I will continue to view both Christianity and Islam as motivated by power and money.

My point all along has only been, that if Islam were to ever gain a stronghold over Christianity in our country -- that is when I will begin to view them 'differently.'

  • 2 votes
#7.9 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:26 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi CL1 -- I look at Wikipedia Talk pages and sources. For these, the source was the CIA Factbook. It was a lot easier to point to the wiki page than to point to each CIA Factbook page. I find that Wikipedia is pretty darn good on "facts" -- and if you discover one that is wrong, it's incumbent upon you to fix it. :-) (That's what I teach my students, anyway.)

then I will continue to view both Christianity and Islam as motivated by power and money.

I think that you should add Judaism to this list, for what I hope are obvious reasons.

Rather than worry about the possibility of Islam surpassing Christianity in the US, I worry that we will never get beyond Christianity as the driving political force in this country. A reminder: more US citizens (as a %) claim to be Christian than Israeli citizens claim to be Jewish.

How has Europe managed to do a better job of shedding the mantle of the church than we have?

  • 2 votes
#7.10 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:59 PM EDT
CL1

Europe, exactly. ...Imo, I think looking to the UK and the mess they have (both politically and aggressive Islamists driving out the Jews) -- is peering into our own future.

Is it any wonder that many Israelis here in the US might *not want to claim* being Jewish?

  • 2 votes
#7.11 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:14 PM EDT
Reply
HunterHawke

So what is the role of monotheism in our modern society? Who benefits?

Pertinent questions, and a large reason why my belief structure has changed over recent years.

I think the role of monotheism in our society today is the same as it has always been. It exists to consolidate power and resources. It is still beneficial, even in America, to have the majority of people sharing a core set of beliefs. Too many people believing too many different things makes it incredibly difficult to hold power over them through fear and intimidation (eg. "if we allow this to happen, everything we hold true will be torn assunder by these infidels").

There's a great deal of money that flows through monotheistic beliefs as well. Just look at Pat Roberts. The man has made millions peddling God to the masses. If he were to have to admit that his god wasn't necessarily the one true god; how many of his followers/subscribers/tithers would he lose to a different sect?

Who benefits? Those who know how to cater to the religious population. They can gain wealth and power by playing on their fears and insecurities and presenting themselves as "one of them" who only wants what's best for their common belief structure.

Keep in mind, I write this as a person who still considers there to be "only one god". However, I think that god has as many facets as there are people seeking it. I happen to believe that the Divine reveals itself to people in the way it can best be experienced by them - be it through Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, etc.

Just my five cents and change. :-}

  • 2 votes
Reply#8 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:18 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Thanks, HH! I concur with your premise about power and money.

What we have both left out, however, is the massive amount of $$$ being made by the U.S. war machine, a war machine that was winding down as the cold war ended and has now ramped up again as we embarked on a religious war. (US plans $60 billion arms sale to Saudi Arabia) I despair when I think of social resources (time, labor, money, manufacturing capacity, natural resources, etc) dedicated to war.

But why are we still motivated by primal fears? I'm pretty sure John Taylor Gatto (educator, critic and author of Weapons of Mass Instruction) would point to our compulsory "education system" as being culpable if not responsible.

  • 1 vote
#8.1 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:36 PM EDT
Reply
etva

There's a great deal of money that flows through monotheistic beliefs as well. Just look at Pat Roberts.

Hunterhawke - very good point. I hadn't even thought of that avenue.

  • 2 votes
Reply#9 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:53 PM EDT
JJP

So what is the role of monotheism in our modern society? Who benefits?

On a political level, I agree with Soval's point in #7 about it being a group's claim of "exclusive privileges and benefits". It is about power and control and fear, wanting to protect what they have.

On an individual level, it varies. Some use their religion for power and control or out of fear. For others it can be a misguided attempt to share their spiritual successes - their system works for them so they need to "save" everyone else.

From Edgar Cayce and Oneness:

One of our confusions associated with religion is that we often mistake the form for the Spirit. For example, individuals may have a particular moving religious experience while attending a certain church or a service in a specific religious denomination. These experiences may include being overwhelmed by the spirit, having a very moving (or even a "kundalini") experience, awakening to the awareness of God's presence, even speaking in tongues. Rather than seeing these experiences within the context of form, however, individuals often assume that because their experience was valid, everything else associated with that religious form contains the same degree of value-they are only forgetting that throughout the history of humankind, individuals have had similar transformational experiences in every religion.

  • 3 votes
Reply#10 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:12 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Thanks, JJP, and thanks for the new reference.

The current religious fervor in the U.S. feels more like "my way is right and that's all there is to it" (directive) than "come see my point of view" (persuasion).

I totally "get" the feeling of community and spirituality that can accrue to systematic religious thought. The printing press supposedly freed us from having that "thought" be directed by priests on high, but that's not the way it seems to be in the U.S. And Pew Research notes the increase in politics preached from the pulpit (directives re elections) since 9-11.

  • 2 votes
#10.1 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:40 PM EDT
JJP

The current religious fervor in the U.S. feels more like "my way is right and that's all there is to it" (directive) than "come see my point of view" (persuasion).

Yeah, I feel that too. Change rarely comes easy, it usually comes slowly (though it seems to be speeding up) and it almost always comes with a fight.

I think so much of the anger, the yelling and screaming is driven by those who see their world changing and fear what the changes will bring. It is an attempt to take back control of events that are now driven on a global basis and can no longer be completely controlled locally.

The current financial and environmental challenges we are facing are forcing more and more people to rethink what they believe and what they value and where their priorities lie.

Our global communication systems have given many people the ability to see that they are not alone in their questioning and searching and it has given them the support and courage they need to seek their own path and those who run the age-old institutions certainly don't like it one bit.

Touching again on the oneness theme, I have found the following lines from Changes, Changes and Earth Changes by Kevin Todeschi something to at least contemplate:

If our faith is currently placed in money – our finances will be tested because we’re not in the earth for monetary gain. If we’ve put all our hopes for the future in government, then we can expect political upheavals. If we put our security exclusively on the solid ground where we live, then we may need an earthquake or a cataclysm to redirect our lives. Whatever we’ve focused on previously may be taken from us.

Our planet is in the midst of upheavals that will enable individuals everywhere to eventually gain this realization: with God as our Creator we are all part of the same family. That understanding and experience is our collective destiny. As I reflect upon Cayce’s earth change prophecies, this is essentially the reason we are undergoing change. This is the promise of the New Age. By our thoughts and deeds as individuals, we contribute to how long it’s going to take us to get there.

  • 1 vote
#10.2 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:23 PM EDT
etva

JJP: Nice Post. I especially agree with this summation:

I think so much of the anger, the yelling and screaming is driven by those who see their world changing and fear what the changes will bring.

  • 1 vote
#10.3 - Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:31 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, JJP - thanks for the post and the link.

Everyone, I appreciate the thoughtful discussion. I'm a little shocked that we didn't get hijacked! Maybe the poor vote/discussion ratio helped with that. :-)

  • 2 votes
#10.4 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:42 AM EDT
Reply
etva

Think about the unemployment rate in much of the Islamic world: all that testosterone with no viable economic channel. No wonder the religious leaders can foment hate and channel that energy.

Kathy: Your statement struck me as eerily prophetic. Am I the only one who feels like the US news is suddenly full of hate? And I am seriously concerned with how we seem to be channelling it.

  • 2 votes
Reply#11 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:34 AM EDT
JJP

Am I the only one who feels like the US news is suddenly full of hate?

Nope. I see it too. Mean-spiritedness is now encouraged, celebrated and emulated. I have never been able to watch the reality shows because most of them are just plain cruel.

I also don't understand why we have to turn everything into a competition - home decorating, cooking, romantic relationships. The win-at-all-cost attitude has become the norm. There is very little emphasis put on teamwork, cooperation and sportsmanship. Why can't we put more emphasis on celebrating a good showing and doing your personal best?

I used to look forward to the pre-game and half-time performances of our high school bands at football games. They would have different shows each week. They were fun to watch. Unfortunately, band competition changed all that. Now the band has one routine and if there is a band competition pending soon, they may not even show up at a game at all.

Local high school band directors have complained about the lack of interest by students as membership in the bands continues to decrease. I think it is because they have taken the fun out of it. They practice year round to the point it is more like a job than a fun extra-curricular activity. Plus, for a group of teenagers, it is bound to get boring practicing the same thing over and over all year long.

  • 1 vote
#11.1 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:24 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, etva, thank you and welcome to the Vine! Like JJP, I see it and I think my posts over the past two weeks (unconsciously) reflect how much it worries me.

Here's JJP:

I also don't understand why we have to turn everything into a competition - home decorating, cooking, romantic relationships. The win-at-all-cost attitude has become the norm. There is very little emphasis put on teamwork, cooperation and sportsmanship. Why can't we put more emphasis on celebrating a good showing and doing your personal best?

A book for you! Just arrived in my mailbox -- No Contest: The Case Against Competition by Alfie Kohn, 1986/1992, about $2 on Amazon used. [You may have heard of his most recent book: The Homework Myth: Why Our Kids Get Too Much of a Bad Thing]. Here's a high level summary he wrote in 1988. He speaks specifically to sports in the book (and I'd call band competition "sport").

I spent the first 10 years of my career working with farmer cooperatives (including the Rural Electric Administration) and used to give talks explaining the rational need for this organizational structure but in terms of competition (as a form of countervailing power in markets with oligopolistic structure). Kohn argues that our culture is more competitive than others around the world -- one has to ask "why? who benefits" from the American as individualist myth. (Also see Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers.)

  • 1 vote
#11.2 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:53 PM EDT
etva

Kohn argues that our culture is more competitive than others around the world -- one has to ask "why?

This has been my experience as well. I spent much of my life overseas, and off the top of my head, the only competition I think of involved sports -- usually soccer.

And I'm definitely all over "the Homework Myth" -- another of my pet peeves:) Again, thanks for the suggestions.

  • 1 vote
#11.3 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:09 PM EDT
Reply
etva

I see it too. Mean-spiritedness is now encouraged, celebrated and emulated. I have never been able to watch the reality shows because most of them are just plain cruel.

JJP: Glad I'm not the only one, and I agree with you on the reality shows. My mother is ill and watches them all day long, and suddenly every word out of her mouth is either rude or negative -- and this from the woman who raised me to "keep quiet if you can't say it politely." I've never actually believed that watching violence will lead to violence, but watching rudeness seems to have made rudeness more acceptable in our society.

I don't mind healthy competition, but I agree that there's an increase in "win at all costs" players.

  • 1 vote
Reply#12 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:54 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Hi, etva:

I don't mind healthy competition, but I agree that there's an increase in "win at all costs" players.

Let me also point you to No Contest: The Case Against Competition. He argues that there is no such thing as "healthy" competition.

I'm with y'all on the "reality" shows. I stumbled upon one, once, that had something to do with cooking. I could not believe the venom that came out of the mouth of one of the judges.

  • 1 vote
#12.1 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:57 PM EDT
etva

Kathy, I'll definitely look for the book. For me, healthy competition is something like the scouting pinewood derby, or an afternoon game of soccer. And OK, I'll confess, I can get competitive at local Point to Point races, but only because I want to win the $10 betting pool:)

Kohn adds a comprehensive account of how students can learn more effectively by working cooperatively in the classroom instead of struggling to be Number One.

This, however, I totally agree with, so thank you for the suggestion.

  • 1 vote
#12.2 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:03 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

You're welcome. And, again, welcome to Newsvine. :-)

Where are you?

  • 1 vote
#12.3 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:59 PM EDT
JJP

Hi Kathy, yes, thank you for the links. I will check out the book and have bookmarked Alfie Kohn's web-site for future reference.

I can only imagine how peaceful life would be if cooperating was the main focus.

  • 1 vote
#12.4 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:12 PM EDT
etva

And, again, welcome to Newsvine. :-)

Where are you?

Thanks. I'm in Virginia. You?

  • 1 vote
#12.5 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:31 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

JJP, I'll probably write a book review when I've finished.

etva - I'm in Seattle. Once-upon-a-time, I lived in VA. I went to grad school at VPI and spent two summers working in DC (living in DC one summer and N. VA. the other). When I lived in PA, I was a lobbyist and was back-and-forth to DC but also to rural northern VA dairy farms.

  • 1 vote
#12.6 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:44 PM EDT
etva

Kathy -- we've surely travelled a few similar roads. I was raised on a rural cattle farm; college in PA; and did a few years in WDC, but I'm not a political animal, so I ended up working in humanitarian assistance programs in various trouble spots overseas. I have 2 very close friends in WA (Seattle and Bellingham) so I'll be out your way this spring.

  • 1 vote
#12.7 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:54 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Cool! I worked for the-then major dairy cooperative in PA (which is now part of LoL) as well as the PA Dept of Ag. I moved out here 20 years ago. Please shout when you come out in the spring! I'll buy coffee. :-)

  • 1 vote
#12.8 - Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:26 PM EDT
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