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KATHY GILL

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Writer, Political Junkie, Educator
Articles Posted: 294  Links Seeded: 246
Member Since: 1/2006  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

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On Crime and Punishment: Shining A Light On Norwegian Prison Sentences

Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:10 AM EDT
world-news, terrorism, justice, norway, criminal-justice
By Kathy Gill

It's the outrage du la semaine: Twitter, Facebook and mainstream news sites remain a virtual maelstrom of people who are beside themselves because Norway reportedly has a maximum prison sentence of "only 21 years." In holier than thou fashion, many of these folks believe that they know best how Norway should treat Anders Behring Breivik, the 32-year-old man charged with killing at least 76 people.

On Twitter, Pennsylvanian David Firoito wrote to me, after having been directed to my "meme correction" post:

@kegill The notion that mass murder could have a max 21 year term with an ill defined extension is nonsensical.

Frustrated, I responded:

@crosswiredmind respectfully, if you are not a Norwegian citizen, I do not believe your opinion of those laws, mores is relevant

Why did I feel frustrated? In short, media ineptitude combined with moral certitude.

Almost every media mention of Norway's sentencing system that I have read has failed to acknowledge that life in prison is possible in Norway through a process called containment or custody. It's the reason I spent my Sunday morning writing approximately 800 words on the subject, while concurrently talking with Norwegians on Twitter.

Some articles reference containment but the headline misleads. For example, NewsMax shouts Norway Shooter's Maximum Penalty: 21 Years. FOX News rewrites the same AFP story with this headline: Norway's 21-Year Maximum Penalty Sparks Outcry After Terror Attacks That Killed 76. In both cases, the mention of extended sentence is deep into the story.

Contrast that with this straightforward (although slightly misleading) reporting from ... China's Xinhua News Agency:

While 21 years is the stiffest sentence a Norwegian judge can hand down, a special sentence can be given to prisoners deemed a danger to society. Under such a sentence, an initial sentence of 21-years may be renewed indefinitely.

Or the BBC:

Under Norwegian law, Mr Breivik faces a maximum of 21 years in jail if convicted, although that sentence can be extended if a prisoner is deemed a threat to the public.

This concept of containment is used in Washington State to detain, indefinitely, sex offenders who have completed their prison sentences. Specifically, "commitment petitions are filed annually on roughly 10 to 15 percent of all the Level 3 offenders upon their release from prison." Rather than being something "foreign" or incapable of offering social protection, containment is a legal concept in use in the U.S.

Then there is the MSM columnist who references containment but does so incorrectly. At SFGate.com Debra J. Saunders writes that only one 5-year extension is possible (not true) and goes on to assert, "If convicted, he can expect to be a free man in his 50s."

Wow. She can look into the future and determine that those Norwegian judges absolutely would see fit to release him after one 5-year extension. There's a bit of snarkiness in that column as well: "Our Betters in Europe got rid of capital punishment decades ago." Yes, Ms. Saunders: no other "civilized" country executes more people per year than the good old U.S.A. Your point? It's not deterrence, is it, because U.S. data do not show that the death penalty deters crime.

By the way, it was also SFGate that ran a Bloomberg piece on Saturday that contained incomplete information (error by omission):

He could receive 21 years in prison, Norway's toughest punishment, Deputy Oslo Police Chief Roger Andresen said yesterday.

Saunders is directly countered by Preben Walle, a Norwegian who tweeted extensively after "Friday's events":

@kegill I can clear up a few things: It's not 21 years per murder, it's collectively. But, he will be subject to containment, and (cont) will serve his whole life in prison.

He continued:

@kegill I think you've shown that you understand the Norwegian thought-process with your writing, I agree with most of what you have written

Maybe that's because I spent a summer in Norway during my college career. Maybe it's because I have developed a cultural relativistic approach when trying to understand "others."

Methodologically, cultural relativism means that while the anthropologist is in the field, he or she temporarily suspends ("brackets") their own esthetic and moral judgements. The aim is to obtain a certain degree of "understanding" or "empathy" with the foreign norms and tastes. Morally and politically, cultural relativism means that we respect other cultures and treat them as "as good as" one's own. [...]

During fieldwork, it is essential to bracket one's own values and control one's spontaneous reactions to a number of exotic phenomena. If one does not, one will simply not learn to understand the people under study. Without such understanding, it will be impossible to establish mutual trust, which is the precondition of entering into dialogue with them. Only through such dialogue may change be attempted. Without dialogue, change is impossible. What is true of fieldwork is, in this case, also true of normal, practical life, where respect and trust form the basis of all productive relations.

Or perhaps my rejection of the moral certitude that I see expressed like this -- "21 years is not enough for such a cold [blooded] bastard. He executed people, should we not justly repay him?" -- is the philosophy of laissez faire extended beyond economics.

Laissez faire: "let (people) do (as they choose)".

I'm not willing to tell citizens of another country -- one that has had "no reason to keep people in prison for life" because its crime rate is among the lowest in Europe -- how they should design their criminal justice system. I would be unwilling to do so even if my criminal justice system looked superior on paper, and that's certainly not the case here. Norway's crime and murder rates are well below those of the U.S..

In the aftermath of a tragedy that surpasses that of 9-11 in per capita scope and that carries the additional burden of having been a home-grown affair, I am unwilling to either second-guess their justice system or tell them, indirectly, that they are wrong, stupid or naive. It is not my place. And neither, I believe, is it yours.

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  • Public Discussion (14)
Kathy Gill

xposted from TheModerateVoice

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:11 AM EDT
I'm Ringo

I think it is a grave injustice to all of those injured or that lost family members in these attacks that the person responsible for them could be set free so soon.

I don't think he'll ever get out, but to even put that power in the hands of some unknown people is misguided.

  • 1 vote
Reply#2 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:46 AM EDT
1devon

From what I understand, Norway, overall, is a much safer place to live. The citizens there are also some of the wealthiest on the planet. Low unemployment, low crime, wealthy and happy citizens...they must be doing something right.

America has more peopled imprisoned than just about anyone else and we do NOT have the successes that Norway does. Maybe we need to take some notes.

I highly doubt they are going to let this guy roam the streets anytime soon...if ever again.

  • 6 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:06 AM EDT
krishna-167929

also some of the wealthiest on the planet. Low unemployment, low crime, wealthy and happy citizens...they must be doing something right.

"they must be doing something right."?

Definitely!

What they did right was to live in an area that was blessed with huge oil reserves-- a very smart choice on their part!

Norway wonders what to do with its oil wealth

Norway was one of Europe’s poorest countries when oil was discovered off its coast 40 years ago. Now its citizens are considered the wealthiest in the world according to the UN Human Development Index.

"the wealthiest in the world"!!!!

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:49 AM EDT
Reply
Jean-Baptiste Perrin

The good thing is that Norway does not believe in the principle of an eye for an eye. Its justice system does not care about the understandable feelings of the victims more than strictly necessary. Norway has on the other hand excellent social services to support these victims, help them morally, psychologically and financially. The justice system is there strictly to punish the guilty (jail sentence), protect society (possible containment) and rehabilitate the perpetrators of crimes. For this last part, its prisons are absolute models in the developed world. Which is clever, as their recidive rate is also one of the lowest in the world. Instead of epidermic reaction to perceived problems, the Norwegian people has preferred clever solutions and fundamental treatment of issues at hand. Precisely what Breivik was willing to attack by his abject actions.

  • 4 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:53 AM EDT
Kathy Gill

Thank you, Jean-Baptiste. I did not know that about the recidivism rate.

iDevon - the data support your belief about Norway's being "safe." And I agree with your hypothesis about letting him out -- with the caveat that although I don't believe he will see freedom any time soon if for some reason he should be released in less than 21 years *it is not my place to tell them their system is wrong.*

Ringo - OK. I'll bite. Given that you think their policy (leaving containment up to a court) is "misguided" -- please tell us how your perfect system would work.

  • 3 votes
Reply#5 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:27 PM EDT
I'm Ringo

Ringo - OK. I'll bite. Given that you think their policy (leaving containment up to a court) is "misguided" -- please tell us how your perfect system would work.

You intentionally avoid the fact that it has nothing to do with 'leaving it up to the court', but rather leaving it up to a long list of PEOPLE.

Murderers should not be released from prison. To do so forces decent people to live beside them with no recourse.

  • 1 vote
#5.1 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:21 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

Excuse me? It's a decision of the court in Norway, just like it's a decision of a court in Washington state. (WA State uses similar civil containment for sex offenders who have served their prison sentence but are considered too risky to allow back into society.)

The purpose of the assessment is to make a determination of the risk to society -- whether that is from a convicted sex offender or convicted murderer. Most murders, in Norway and in the US, aren't committed by people like Anders Behring Breivik.

See the comment about recidivism -- it looks like Norway is doing something 'right' relative to the US in terms of both the actual crime rate and a revolving prison door. Some of that "rightness" could be the fact that it is a small country - I haven't seen any data that compares a US state with approximately 5 million people (hmm, that might be WA state) with Norway.

  • 2 votes
#5.2 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:36 PM EDT
I'm Ringo

Washington state doesn't have a limit of 21 years either. The court is a system of thousands of people. They don't leave it up to the court, they leave it to just a few individual people.

The government has no right to force us to live next door to people that go around violating the basic right of people to live.

  • 1 vote
#5.3 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:44 PM EDT
Reply
etva

Excellent article, Kathy as always. I think Norway will do just fine without us telling them what they should do.

  • 2 votes
Reply#6 - Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:44 PM EDT
Kathy Gill

thanks, etva - sorry it took me so long to respond. i've been caught up in G+ and a couple of start up ideas AND my first SXSW speech proposal!

  • 1 vote
#6.1 - Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:10 AM EDT
Reply
bitemore

If we are to be critical, I think we should look, first, to our own country. We spend far too much time and resources interfering with other countries. When we are perfect, perhaps then we can critique what other countries do. Until then, perhaps we should shut our traps and maybe learn something from those we criticize too quickly. Norway seems to have connected all its dots whereas our dots resemble a severe case of acne with nary a bottle of Proactiv in sight!

  • 4 votes
Reply#7 - Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:24 AM EDT
JAVE

Many Americans are not fully comfortable with the concept of containment. We only accept it for the worst sex offenders. The concept of being sentenced to 21 years, unless the government decides to keep you longer, sounds like a bad idea to many Americans. An indefinite sentence sounds like trouble.

If the Labor party remains in power, will they grant this guy parole? Never. If a different political group gained power, would they grant him parole? Maybe. If Right wing extremists gained power would they release him after 21 years? Very likely.

While in reality this guy will be locked away for life, in theory he could be released after 21 years. The only thing that will keep him committed or set free is the government's decision. Americans don't believe that a just sentence for all the people slaughtered by this piece of shyte should be dependent on a judge reviewing his case every couple years.

  • 1 vote
Reply#8 - Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:12 AM EDT
WILDWONDERFUL

This may change how this country views some things.

  • 1 vote
Reply#9 - Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:56 AM EDT
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